From 20 Years In Corporate To Her Own Consulting Firm

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So if I consider myself a strategy expert, then I should be an expert in saying no.

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Hello, Adeolu so

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it's good to see you again.

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obviously we've we've met previously, so I know a little bit about your story.

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But if you could just, you know, for everybody listening out there who have not seen you online, who have not, you know, heard about your business, if you can tell us a few things

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about yourself, introduce yourself to the audience.

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Let's start from that, please.

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thanks, Daniel.

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So just to get my

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there, Adeolu Adewumi-Zer and I'm the founder and CEO of ZER Consulting Africa And we are a purpose-driven strategy management consulting company working with the top ten percent

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of companies across Africa, focused on Africa.

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So we do have clients also out of Europe, out of the US, Asia, TBD.

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working with the top ten percent so that typically means companies upwards of a million dollars US in revenue annual revenue

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and what we do with them is to to really so so rather than focusing on the financial side, the capital side, we focus on the business building side and that's looking at five

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areas.

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So we call it our SCALE framework, strategy, people,

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leadership, corporate governance and impact.

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And that's really building on my twenty plus years in the corporate space, starting out in the US, you can hear that from my accent and and moving to to Europe for almost a decade

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before

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finally coming back home so to say.

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first in in Nairobi for a few years, driving mergers and acquisitions for a large financial services, German financial services firm, before finally

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in 2020 during COVID coming back home finally to Nigeria to become CEO here for for that same company.

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and and then after a couple of years decided it was time to go off on my own.

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Wow.

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Turn to my

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consulting routes.

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Very good.

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What a story.

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Like what a what a journey.

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So how long, how much time have you spent in the US?

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So we emigrated to the US when I was just three.

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My parents emigrated to the US.

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So I I I I like to tease them that they took us they took me from home and and took me to the US.

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but for very good reasons, right?

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And I left the US in two thousand eight.

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So it's already been sixteen years since I since I left.

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left.

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That leaves a mark on you definitely.

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And it explains the accent entirely.

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For sure.

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For sure.

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So so what it it it's funny because when a lot of Nigerians tend not to believe that I'm Nigerian or they tend not to think that I'm Nigerian.

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It's not that they think I'm American, but they tend to think that I'm either South Africa, Kenyan, etcetera, anything but Nigerian.

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I see, I see.

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Well, I always say, you know, to the people that migrated ever you know, I'm in the UK right now and I'm originally from Poland.

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So, you know, a similar

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story, but not that

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Not that young in terms of the migration.

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I migrated after I finished the the the university, right?

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So that was a a

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a different point in my time.

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But now I just call myself a hybrid.

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I'm no longer the same

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person.

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It just leaves some sort of a mark on you, right?

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You know, you you're changed as a person after migrating.

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So would you say a similar thing about yourself?

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Yeah, for sure.

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So that's why I call myself a global Nigerian.

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And my my kids as global

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Africans because you know, there's this term called third culture kids, T C Ks.

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I don't know if you've heard of it, where you know, children who come from one culture but grow up in another one, are neither from one or the other, right?

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They're just sort of like you said, hybrid of those cultures.

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And then with additional travel.

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Yeah, I no, I completely agree.

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Completely agree.

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Particularly in today's world.

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you?

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so I would really wish that upon my my child.

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You know, I've got a four year old, so you know, I've obviously he's experiencing it right now, right?

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You know, we're living here

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in the UK.

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but where we're gonna end up, I don't know.

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Who knows?

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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You know, a l a lot of parents feel that they that it it can be detrimental to the child somehow to to move them.

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particularly a big move like a country move, a cross country move.

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and cross border move.

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And I I I that's not has not been my experience.

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Of of course, every child is different, but I think generally children can only benefit from those kind of experiences.

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Yeah.

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I think it can only be a negative thing if they spot you and sense you as a parent being very like anxious about it and nervous and

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and tense and all that.

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Then obviously it reflects on on them because they don't feel safe.

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But as long as you're

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confident in what you're doing, I think that's just literally just positive things.

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You know, every time we come back, even from visiting the the Polish family, it's you know, he comes back like with a head full of like new words, new phrases, you know, even

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just you know, the the perception of certain things.

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He asks a different question, only positive things.

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So I'm I'm glad to to to hear that you had the same sort of experience.

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Okay, and what about the corporate?

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Can you can you share a bit more about that sort of stage in your life, you know, and what driven you to to start your own thing?

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Yeah, so I I started out in c in corporate, right?

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back in two thousands is is when I started as an actuary, with a very technical career in in the US.

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Uhhuh.

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And but I knew from well the entire time, my my entire personal t time but definitely professionally that I would be coming back to Nigeria.

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So, you know, all the decisions that I've made from a corporate space, from a professional space and also from a personal space has been to to get me in that direction.

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Mm-hmm.

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doesn't mean that I had a plan.

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I I have lots of plans throughout the time.

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But you know, I had to be flexible and with the the only thing question I always ask myself, does this get me closer to Nigeria?

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And that's what got me from US specifically Chicago to Munich, Germany.

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with this single consideration being that it's the same time zone as as Nigeria's Lagos for at least for half half the year.

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I had never visited Germany.

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And also the the move from Germany to Turkey

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Of course, my my my husband and and partner at the time is Turkish,

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but part of the consideration was that it was a transitional market.

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So would give me that those is some of those experiences that you don't get in in Western markets and and actually served to convince executive recruiters that I could

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actually make it in the emerging markets.

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So in the US I started as a consultant, as an actual consultant on the pension side.

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that brought in out to to international benefits, global benefits and the the global compensation.

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so I was I

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called Hewitt Associates as a consultant.

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That that company got bought over by Aon which is a very large global firm.

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Our largest client, which I brought in, was a German multinational by the name of Allianz.

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And so when Hewitt Associates was going through their acquisition by Aon I decided to take a break, that it was time to take a sabbatical.

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I took about nine months off, and during that time, thinking that okay, this is my chance to get to Africa, started looking at opportunities in the Middle East, because that's

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where many of the African headquarters.

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Were set up at that time.

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This would have been 2010.

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But then Allianz called me back.

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The same team I supported as a consultant called me back and asked me if I could I would help them to actually execute that same project, but from the inside.

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And to everyone's shock and amazement, I actually returned back to Germany.

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I was in Turkey at the time on the sabbatical.

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wow

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so yeah, so so so so

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at the time, so I joined Allianz I of course was asking the question what was what are Allianz's plans in Africa?

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Did there was a different group CEO at the time, and I was told that actually we're pivoting out of Africa, and so I thought, okay, this is not the right company for started

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talking to executive recruiters who were asking me from Nigeria, don't you want to come back?

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And it was at that moment where probably w at one of the pivotal points in my career, one of the most senior

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folks in the in in in the in the company was looking for someone to steer his new strategy and he was looking specifically for someone with a consulting background and in the

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mid-30s etc which which fits fit my my background and so I was asked to to speak with him.

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Initially when I received the email I sort of just rolled my eye thinking

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Well no, I'm on my way out.

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I don't want to stay in Germany even longer.

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But

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something told me that well, you can always say no, right?

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So what's y l let's just have the conversation.

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And that conversation was a game changer because I realized very quickly that this was someone with the expertise and the knowledge and the access that I needed to to stick to

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for for at least a couple of years.

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And that's really what changed the trick trajectory of my career.

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Because up to then I'd been a consulting HR.

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That was my

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Space.

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Even when I would move to think about moving to Africa, I would think

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I would move as a chief HR officer.

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Uh-huh.

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But this role then moved me into business.

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So I was driving the strategy for one of the global business lines for Allianz.

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I see.

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and and so it was because of that I can say that I became a CEO finally.

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I see, I see.

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And

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would you say it's a it's a common sort of misconception for people in the corporate, you know, we've been there as well, so I I I I've seen it up close.

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if you are let's say, you know, working in the ranks, right?

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Right, you know, you have

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a very different lens, right?

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You don't see the entire business, how things actually you know link together, how it functions.

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But as soon as you switch to those higher positions, like you have, your perception changes, right?

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You get the exposure

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to, hold on a second.

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This is becoming like a strategy game, right?

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You know, suddenly you've got a board in front of you, right?

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And you see the the pawns sort of moving, etc.

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It's it's becoming a bit of

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chess game, right?

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You know, is is there

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a similar sort of experience that you've you know you've had as well from from your side?

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I think so.

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And I think that's what a lot of founders miss who haven't gone through the corporate you know, cop corporate path and and go directly from whatever their education was,

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directly into founding a company, is that

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There's a there's a lot of things that a large corporate will learn will will teach you around, like you said, understanding strategy, understanding company politics,

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understanding how to manage a board, understanding how to or how to follow processes and the kind of processes you need to have to have in place, even how to manage you know, P

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and L profit and loss.

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And

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When you go directly to becoming a founder, you sort of just have to learn on the go.

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And you don't even know

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what you don't know, right?

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So you're you're sort of left scrambling, particularly when more experienced investors, you try to bring more experienced investors into your company.

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Yeah, very true.

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funny story very quickly on the politics topic.

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The last company

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that I was working with,

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My day one, literally just day one, I was just being shown around the office, et cetera, et cetera.

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And one of the the colleagues

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who who was you know helping me and and just you know meeting everybody, etc.

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you know, she says like, we were so happy here, you know, there's like zero politics in the company, right?

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Like, come on, you know.

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That's you either don't see it or it's a miracle unicorn

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Don't exist, right?

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There's always some level of politics, right?

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You know, maybe not on every single level within the business, but there's always something, right?

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so it's just something you have to learn to accept, right?

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And and in a healthy manner.

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Yeah, yeah, of course.

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Of

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course.

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And you know, you having the exposure to both the the European sort of approach to to to operating the business and what was happening in the US, you know, did you spot any like

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major differences in how they run the companies?

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Maybe the approach to let's say how aggressive they are with their strategies, maybe, you know, anything that might be, you know, giving the guys listening any like indication, you

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know, where they might want to try and and you know

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let's say implement themselves before they do the jump and and you know, build their own thing.

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Definitely short answer.

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although I just want to clarify that of course my experiences coming out of Germany and and and Europe is a big place with different countries and cultures.

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So, you know, w one of the things I I I noticed very quickly about the Germans compared to the Americans is that the Ger the Germans tend to prepare.

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qu for quite a long time before going.

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Whereas an American will tend to just jump in into it and figure it out as as they go.

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So having grown up in American culture and also my personality can sometimes be a bit frustrated.

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Although I'm a big planner, you know, I I think there's there's there's sort of you can overplan, and and that was the feeling I was I was getting that there was just a lot of

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time spent

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in alignment meetings and that's what's basically what they're called.

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Like so

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I I I grew to hate that word alignment because y you had to align with everyone and everything and get everyone's buy-in before you can move ahead.

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Yep.

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But the benefit of that, the flip side of that is that once you did have all those numerous alignment meetings, then theoretically the the the speed should be faster, the

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execution speed should be faster.

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I see.

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I see.

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It just took you a lot longer to get to that point.

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I did have an episode where I would

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work with German teams.

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It was a a a global business with with the headquarters in the Germany.

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and at least, you know, if being a project manager at that point, if

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they said something, right, that something's gonna be done, it got done.

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It just was, you know, so I loved that.

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So yeah.

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If I had a choice

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I would have been there probably a way, way longer because I loved the fact that, you know, if somebody told me I'm gonna do X, Y, and Z, it did happen.

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So I didn't have to ping anybody, remind anybody about anything.

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There was a schedule

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and we just, you know, kept it, right?

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Obviously things happen and and all that, so so that's a different thing.

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But on the actual promise making element, there was no false promises, there was no just like delays because somebody, you know, got distracted or whatever.

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They were like laser focused.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Which also does mean though that when you need to sort of shift and pivot, you are less willing to strike that before degree this is the way we're going.

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What are you saying?

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You know, we were preparing for this.

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We need to align on the change.

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again.

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We need to align Yeah,

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that's that's so true.

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But it's I like hearing these stories because you know it shows

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you how the culture builds the business environment as well.

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So the culture of the actual nation builds the culture of the business, right?

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So let's say if

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it was a German company, but all the senior management, the the the headquarters, etc., was in the US, obviously it would have had a a different impact, right?

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So they there there would be like internal friction and tension because of the different

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lifestyle and culture approach.

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Which is exactly what happens, right?

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Because I worked for Allianz in Turkey.

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And and of course that's a Turkish culture which is very fast moving and coming to head to head with a German culture.

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Yeah.

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Which is very thoughtful and planned.

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And so I I you know

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be straddling the two, I could hear the comments and the grumblings from both sides.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Germans are too slow.

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Like just let's just move.

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Yeah, so

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Wow.

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But what a what a what a beautiful mix of of you know experiences.

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You know, I I can't imagine how like you know enriching this must be.

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So I'm not surprised that you are now a successful business owner and founder because

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all the things that you've seen, all the interactions, the mergers and acquisitions element.

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have you had a like you know really in depth experience with with that one or was it like a just a brief element of of your career?

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Well it was three and half years.

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So it wasn't that brief.

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Okay.

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during that time closed a number of deals including the the largest deal at the time in East Africa

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which was named East Africa Deal of the Year.

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So I I would I wouldn't say I I I'm I'm not the deepest expert.

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I I didn't do it my entire career, but yeah, I I got a pretty good taste of it.

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Yes, yes.

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what to focus on.

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So just

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knowing what the business seeks when they are trying to acquire a different business, that's a useful information because

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then you know how to build your own.

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So it is sellable.

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Right?

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it it and and and even more specifically, I it helps to to coach and advise our clients, right?

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necessarily I'm not necessarily looking to sell my business just yet, but

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other businesses our clients who are looking to professionalize their company and at some point looking at a strategic investor, I I can tell them exactly what a strategic

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investor would be looking for.

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Brilliant.

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Okay.

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Now let's dive in a bit more into the business side itself.

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Right?

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So what

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does the business do in terms of the the strategy, you know, is there a specific sort of

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niche that you're focusing on, who's your ideal client, you know, just take us through through that sort of element first.

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question, so ZER Consulting Africa is a business that I started at the end of twenty twenty three.

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And it started actually after a I I took a year off from the corporate world quite intentionally, thinking that and assuming that I would return to the corporate world.

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Okay.

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So, you know, over the years there people had encouraged me at different times, including my husband, in fact, 'cause who is very entrepreneurial as a Turk, that maybe

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I should think of

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off my own and my my response was also always, no, that's that's not my thing, that that's his thing.

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I'm very much the nine to five, well, the seven to seven, whatever hours you're you're putting in on the corporate side.

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Yep.

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But I so in o I I am now in October, I have a couple offers on on my desk from private equity firms and I had had a weekend where I thought, okay, so now if I go to private

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equity and they're asking for at my at my at my level another seven to ten year commitment.

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I done eleven years as a consultant, eleven years in in s the the the true corporate side, and then now I would do another let's say decade.

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And I thought, well, what if I put that decade into of work?

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Because I work very hard into building my own thing.

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And what's the worst that that can happen?

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If after a couple of years it's not working out, I can always go back to corporate.

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And that's what that's what decided me.

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And so then it was about, okay, what is it that I can I can I can add as value?

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what is my value add, and I decided to go back to consultant because that's really where my heart is.

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I mean one can argue looking at my profile and the jobs I've taken at at Allianz that most of those roles are also sort

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of consultant advisee roles if you look deep deep into it.

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So starting the consulting company, didn't have a clear vision at the time as to who the target client would be,

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what topics we would deliver on.

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it was sort of just sort of a vague notion in my head based on my experience in all the different areas in all the different countries, and in a CEO and saying that's my

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unique selling proposition, my unique value, is that unlike many consultants, I've actually walked in your shoes.

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because that's the that's the the the the bash that's that consultants tend to get like, you're very theoretical, you come with your PowerPoints and then you jet off again.

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Right?

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Especially the big ones.

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Exactly, exactly.

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But now I can say I've actually walked your reality, so I know exactly what

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I'm talking about.

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And just a cut of long story short, so during

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twenty twenty four, now we're twenty twenty four, is when I was convinced to to write a book.

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And it was it was during that process of of writing the manuscript that I I really was able to dig into who is my ideal client profile and what is it that I want to deliver to

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them.

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And and what is my vision?

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So basically, my vision to build African excellence for the global stage.

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That that that is my vision.

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who is it that I want to work with to get to that top 10%?

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And really, when I say top 10%.

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I mean the two to ten, leaving the 1%, the billion dollar companies for the McKinseys of the world.

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But not the startups, because that's then a very long journey to get to 100 million, which I we see as sort of when you're grown up, 100 million US, and you can compete with your

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comp with your likes across Asia, across Europe, across the Americas.

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So going from 1 to 100, as opposed to going from 0 to 100, because at 0 to 1%,

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One journey,

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which there are many people who support that, many organizations who support that can be a very long one.

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yes.

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And and and and and not the space that I think I can add value with my my my profile.

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So that journey from one to ten, building that African excellence, and looking at the five areas other than money.

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We we tend to, you know, business owners tend to to think about money understandably so, capital, how do I grow my business, but

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garbage in, garbage out, right?

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So if you throw money at a bad business

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saying this.

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It will continue to be a bad business.

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So how how how do we create good businesses that are can actually leverage that capital to its fullest?

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and and so looking through my book, Afro Optimism Unleashed, this is this is how we boil it down into our SCALE framework, which I'd mentioned before.

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it available to

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to buy online where people could find it if they are interested.

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Yes it is so it's available on on Amazon.

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Okay.

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And and then also

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in your in your local bookstores if you're in Europe or or the US and also in Nigeria, in fact, Nigeria and and South Africa.

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We couldn't get into the Kenya market, local market quite yet, but also available in Nigeria and South Africa on the ground.

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and very quickly on on the book element as well, because you know obviously

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we'll we'll move on to the to the business side a bit more, but you know, just you know, while we're at it,

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I was just thinking because there is this

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Especially currently in in the current like creator sort of economy, there is this

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shift like, you know, okay, you're gonna become a bit more let's say, perceived as as more of an expert if you do have a book, right?

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Did it help you

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in your early sort of career?

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What at what point, you know, did you see any impact of your book, you know, on your actual career, on maybe on the business numbers that it's actually reflecting the fact

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that you've released that book?

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So we released a book in in March of of last year.

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and

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one of the things I discussed with my finance manager at the time is how do we measure the return on on investment for the book.

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And we realized very quickly that it'd be difficult to track w the business that's coming in just from the book.

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book.

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Yep.

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because you you never know which touch point it was that brings f client finally to to you.

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So the the the book gives you definitely credibility and visibility as a thought leader, other than of

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of course writing articles which is which is also very useful but the the value that that comes with saying that you're an author particularly a bestselling author

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particularly a award winning author so this is all work that you need to do to get to the milestones

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it it it speaks for itself, right?

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So for for for us we see the book as a marketing tool for the business.

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I see.

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So we gift the the the the the book to to prospects.

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If we go to an event, we we hand the book out.

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Okay.

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if we had been doing this this this live I would have given you a copy of the book.

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so so we we see it very much as something that we speak for us in sp spaces where

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we we might n never have access to.

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to.

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Got

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it.

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And so so that's that's what I want to say on on that element.

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one one of the things that because I've been very reluctant about writing a book.

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so the the same way that people had said, you should start something on your own, is that the way some some people would look at my my background and say, you should write a

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book, that that would make a great story.

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And I just thought there's so many great books out there.

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Like, why do you need yet another one?

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What what value is this book?

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I'm not one of those people who wants to see their name.

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name on

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on paper, right?

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I I don't need that.

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and so what what convinced me to to really write the book is when I understood the the marketing impact that it can have

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a and and the influence it can have on on on how people perceive ZER which is my company as opposed to me.

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So yes, people will know me, but I want people to also know the company.

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I see.

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I see.

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That's very interesting.

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Cause you know, for me specifically, you know, a book is is on my radar, but

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it's it's it's gonna be a tool to actually boost that initial stage to get that

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credibility.

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in that early growth stage.

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Mm-hmm.

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I'm I'm not, you know, as far as you are.

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Obviously your business is huge at this point, right?

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So so that's a very different sort of moment in time.

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And it also shows me a different motivation behind creating it, right?

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It's a different purpose.

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It serves a different role.

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So also that's

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a that's a very interesting thing to hear from from your side.

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That's very good.

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Thank you for that.

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okay and in terms of I feel though that I'm starting to see the impact more now.

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Uh-huh.

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so it you know, this is our third year of business.

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This is a year plus since we wrote the book.

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so it it you know, it it takes time.

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W I I can give you the book today and and and it's not even necessarily that you that you read the book by the way, and I and I tell people there's no pressure to read the book.

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But you know, it keeps me top of mind or is, you know, part of keeping me top of mind.

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But you might not have a problem today that that I can address.

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Your problem might come six months from now, twelve months from now.

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And so when when your problem occurs or and you need someone to help you with a solution, that's maybe when you think of me.

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So you don't necessarily see it immediately.

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I I feel like we're starting to see that impact now.

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now.

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Interesting.

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Interesting.

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I've always seen you know, when I speak with with other business owners or people who are starting their own thing.

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I always say that, you know, business is not necessarily a a let's say zero one checksum thing.

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It's it's literally

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just a a timeline, isn't it?

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Eventually you're gonna hit those specific problems, no matter what kind of business you are, because you know, the growth looks similar in in different

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niches, maybe not identical, of course, but there's certain things that will always happen for a business because that's the timeline.

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This is what you have to go through, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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yeah, we we see the same and and

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governance is a good one, right?

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Because small companies, startups who who are are less than six months old, they think s governance is just for the the big billion dollar, hundred billion dollar companies, not

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understanding that to become

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a a billion dollar company, you have to put those those some of those standards in place.

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Of course, not to the same level.

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but governance will always be an issue.

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It doesn't matter if you're have one dollar this year or a hundred dollars or a million or a hundred million, you will need governance and procedures in place in your company.

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And the earlier

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you start, the the easier it becomes, right?

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Because because you you build with that end in mind, right?

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You know, is is that something that you also cover?

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Yeah, yeah.

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And the longer

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Completely agree.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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That's interesting.

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In terms of the the the the clients, right?

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You know, once you've

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established the business, I'm assuming that the inquiries came from like all sorts of different places, right?

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You didn't have like a a specific niche or specific persona of a client in mind that early, right?

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So how did you sort of identify

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that over time?

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Can you take us through that process a little bit?

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Yeah, so the the first clients of course came via my network.

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so if I think of the my our first three clients, one was is a company out of Spain, out of Barcelona specifically, and they are a fund of funds.

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an another one is a Nigeria based angel network.

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and a third one is a Nigeria based insur tech.

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So you see three very different companies.

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and if i even take the fourth one which was a a traditional health insurance business so you have a traditional legacy company you have a tech company you have an an investor

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well two two two t two investors but at different stages of investment so one at the very early stage of investment and another one much further along in investment and what the

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overarching connection between those four first clients was that they were all focused on Africa, one, and then two, they had a purpose and a vision for Africa that aligned with

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our own.

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So we we say very clearly that we're not for everybody.

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Everybody's not for us.

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Everybody has their priorities and their visions for this continent.

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We're not saying that ours is better than yours, but what we're saying is that we have a certain and

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sometimes it's just a gut feel.

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You know, we have a certain type of founder, certain type of CEO where we feel like that that purpose is similar to ours.

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so for me, before I got very specific about sector and stage of growth and location, etc., it was really that mindset.

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Are we are we of two minds are are we of the same mind?

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Got it.

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Got it.

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Okay.

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And how quickly were you able to generate these clients?

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Like, you know, this is obviously an obstacle for everybody starting their own thing.

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You know, where are my first clients coming from?

Speaker: 00:31:08

You mentioned that you've leveraged your sort of network, but was it in a way that you've actively pursued them or they as soon as they heard that,

Speaker: 00:31:16

Adeolu is is doing her own thing now.

Speaker: 00:31:18

So, you know, we need to, you know, get in touch because, you know, we need her, right?

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Was was it that kind of kind of situation which would have been amazingly like lucky and and all that.

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So it it would be an amazing story.

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But you know, what what did that look like?

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And it sort of was, but yeah, the advantage I had is that one year transition.

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Got it.

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Where I thought, like I said, I was going back to corporate.

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So my

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My interactions for peop with people were very non transactional.

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God is they were they were I was very open and all about the relationship and getting to know you and and and and and and volunteering for things and and and giving value wherever

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I could.

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because I had time.

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So, you know, one of the first things I did when I left corporate was to contact the various organizations where I had been a member of as CEO of Allianz Nigeria.

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but a member on paper, right?

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Because I had no time to do anything for for those organizations.

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So a member on paper and I just reached out and said, Hey, you know

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know, I have some time.

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What do you guys need?

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I see.

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And so had one organization asked me to run their strategy off site.

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A different organization asked me to teach soft skills to the technical folks.

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Another organization asked me to speak on various stages.

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and so that was the first part.

Speaker: 00:32:34

And then secondly also reaching out to people because I didn't know what my next

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step would be.

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I'd always had this North Star, I'm coming to Nigeria.

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Now I'm in Nigeria.

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What next?

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Uh-huh.

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know what that what next was.

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And for the first time, I didn't know what that what next was.

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So then I was just meeting everybody.

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So I would meet you, Daniel, and and you know, we'd have a great lunch and you would say,

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you know, based on your background, I think you you you really should meet meet Eloise and Matt.

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And and I would actually intentionally follow up with you because you know, people say that all the time, but there's no follow-up.

Speaker: 00:33:11

So I would actually follow up you with you, Daniel, and say, Adana, you mentioned I should meet Eloise and Matt.

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giving you their contacts and so I would actually reach out to Eloise and Matt and say, hey Daniel said I we should connect.

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I would have a coffee with one, I would have breakfast with another, and then they would say, you should meet A and

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B.

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And this and Matt would I you should meet Y and Z.

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And I and so with this, I already had a wide network, you know, with all the countries I lived in.

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But this brought in my network even further because I was meeting with people from foundations, from the investment world.

Speaker: 00:33:49

From corporate of course, from the startup ecosystem, from nonprofits, anyone and everyone who was connected to Africa.

Speaker: 00:33:55

I was meeting with them for that year.

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With nothing with nothing in mind, no no like I don't want to say bad intention, but but no no nothing behind no yeah, no agenda, exactly.

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No no agenda.

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And I think people can sense that.

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You don't have an agenda.

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yes, hundred percent, yeah.

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And then they're much more open and it's just, you know, we're having a nice chat and we we build up the relationship.

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So in October, when I then finally decided to start something

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Those that at least three of those four first clients were from those folks I had met during that past I see.

Speaker: 00:34:35

Amazing.

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Wow.

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So goes to show networking isn't really like, you know, just a cliche, right?

Speaker: 00:34:42

You've gotta actually like get in there, you know, get out there actually and and meet new people, etc.

Speaker: 00:34:48

So would you advise it to anybody?

Speaker: 00:34:50

to just focus on their own circle and growing your network through them first.

Speaker: 00:34:54

Yeah, so so what what I want to say and what I tell people is that the best time to build your network is when you don't need it.

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it.

Speaker: 00:35:02

Got it.

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And and so going to that that same point, so it's not when you decide you want to build a business that you s all of start start frantically, you know, going through all your

Speaker: 00:35:13

LinkedIn contacts and s and and reaching out to them and trying to meet them, et cetera, because

Speaker: 00:35:17

people can sense that, and and sort of sense that agenda like you said and and desperation.

Speaker: 00:35:22

But the best time to build a your network is is when you don't need it.

Speaker: 00:35:28

and then

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you you have to maintain that network which a lot of people don't do, right?

Speaker: 00:35:34

You know, the the the the we'll meet Daniel and then we might not ever see each other again or we see each other five years at some random random conference.

Speaker: 00:35:42

You yes you exactly you have to nurture it.

Speaker: 00:35:45

You have to be systematic.

Speaker: 00:35:47

and I'm a mathematician so that comes very naturally to me to me.

Speaker: 00:35:52

I've had Excel spreadsheets.

Speaker: 00:35:57

But I had an Excel

Speaker: 00:35:59

where I would meet somebody and I would actually put them in my Excel spreadsheet the date that we'd met so that you know every six months I would make sure okay who who whom

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haven't I interacted with in the last six months and I go back and say okay let's meet up.

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Let's,

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you know, whatever.

Speaker: 00:36:17

Well, you're giving me ideas already.

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I

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can tell you straight away that that's such a good idea.

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I did not

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think about that to be fair.

Speaker: 00:36:25

I you know, it's it doesn't come naturally that that thought of actually record it, right?

Speaker: 00:36:29

It might be valuable.

Speaker: 00:36:30

Especially in the time when you don't need it, like you said, right?

Speaker: 00:36:34

That's that's such an interesting approach.

Speaker: 00:36:35

And and g and and give it value because you know one of the things I found in Nigeria, I don't know if you see it in the UK, is that you know, especially with WhatsApp, it's so

Speaker: 00:36:44

easy to reach out to

Speaker: 00:36:45

folks.

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But when people a lot of people when they reach out to folks, th they they won't reach out with anything concrete.

Speaker: 00:36:50

They'll just say, I'm just checking in.

Speaker: 00:36:52

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:36:53

I hate those messages.

Speaker: 00:36:54

no.

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I don't need you to check in on me.

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I'm a grown woman.

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Yeah.

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I class it as one of those C words.

Speaker: 00:37:00

Like, you know, just don't don't don't do it.

Speaker: 00:37:03

Like check in.

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Yeah.

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So they do it in the UK as

Speaker: 00:37:06

Okay,

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follow

Speaker: 00:37:07

up F word, follow up.

Speaker: 00:37:09

I'm just following up.

Speaker: 00:37:10

checking in, These are the typical like the sales world sort of, you know, phrases that, you know, you shouldn't really take into your like networking life because it's it's it

Speaker: 00:37:18

shows that agenda, doesn't it?

Speaker: 00:37:20

and I sympathize and I understand that the heart is good behind it.

Speaker: 00:37:24

You know, okay, maybe you cross someone's mind and they just want to.

Speaker: 00:37:29

But I you know what I tell the people I mentor is that give value every time you reach out to someone.

Speaker: 00:37:36

So for example

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If there's an article that has you know brought me where which I think would be interesting to you, Daniel, I'll send it to you.

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And I'll say, Hey Daniel, you

Speaker: 00:37:46

know, I I saw this article about podcasts, you know, maybe you'll find it interesting and that's it.

Speaker: 00:37:52

Like, and I'll move on.

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And you'll move on.

Speaker: 00:37:54

Or you might say thank you, but then you you know, you move on or it might spur a conversation.

Speaker: 00:37:59

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:37:59

Wow.

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No, that's that's very valuable.

Speaker: 00:38:01

I I've seen it very recently actually.

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It was within the last week or so.

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I was on a couple

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of days on like an event, right?

Speaker: 00:38:09

And there was other business owners in in there as well in the room.

Speaker: 00:38:13

And we were chatting with this lady,

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And she's also a a really like, you know, senior terms of the experience, she's done the role for somebody else for years.

Speaker: 00:38:22

And we were just

Speaker: 00:38:23

chatting about certain things, and as soon as we landed on the topic of digital products, how to sell online, etc., I was able to help her because she was going to make the biggest

Speaker: 00:38:33

mistake she could, right?

Speaker: 00:38:34

You know, in terms of giving away the value and allowing some certain people to copy it, just like copy paste and et cetera.

Speaker: 00:38:40

So how do you protect yourself?

Speaker: 00:38:42

It's also the conversations that you have to have with yourself.

Speaker: 00:38:46

How do you protect

Speaker: 00:38:47

your IP, your intellectual property within your business?

Speaker: 00:38:49

Do you touch on that that sort of element with within your you know consulting you know area as well or how to protect your IPs?

Speaker: 00:38:58

So, you know, that gets very legal and technical very quickly.

Speaker: 00:39:02

Yeah, but you know, just

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like little tips and tricks, you know, anything like you know in general without going into too, you know.

Speaker: 00:39:08

Right.

Speaker: 00:39:08

So so so so so generally you can talk about, but we also bring in we like to work with with partners, with strategic partners on various topics that we either don't want to

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focus on or we're we're not the subject matter.

Speaker: 00:39:20

Got it.

Speaker: 00:39:20

So, you know, I might I I'll give a client, you know, s sort of high level and then if they want to take the conversation deeper, I'll bring in I see partners.

Speaker: 00:39:30

I see.

Speaker: 00:39:30

Okay.

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This is how I imagine it because you know, my model, you know, at the moment I'm on my own, right?

Speaker: 00:39:36

The team is gonna

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come as soon as possible.

Speaker: 00:39:38

Trust me.

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I can't wait to get other people

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involved.

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But that's that's kind of how I've seen it as well.

Speaker: 00:39:43

Like, you know, you don't have to be a subject matter expert on everything and you shouldn't

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really be, because you everybody's got their own strengths, right?

Speaker: 00:39:50

So if you're trying

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to be all of it for everybody, you're missing out.

Speaker: 00:39:53

I agree.

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agree.

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And I was on my own, for for quite a while as well, for the first ten months.

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Okay.

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I was I was on my own.

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and and but one of the things that I really f loved about moving into the entrepreneurial world is how collaborative I found people.

Speaker: 00:40:10

I think that's less so on the corporate side where it's much more competitive.

Speaker: 00:40:14

Like there's the dog eat dog world.

Speaker: 00:40:17

I mean there's a reason that's that that said.

Speaker: 00:40:19

but on the on the on the entrepreneurial side, the business building side, I've just found that people are just so eager to

Speaker: 00:40:25

meet and find a way to work together or introduce you to somebody or, you know, whatever.

Speaker: 00:40:30

It's it's like the first I've never heard this word used so much since I moved into the entrepreneurial side is let's find a way to collaborate.

Speaker: 00:40:39

Another C word, but a good C word.

Speaker: 00:40:41

Yes.

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It's it's one of those rare ones which is very positive.

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And

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personally I love it.

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I always thrived in that collaborative environment.

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Even when I was interviewing for that corporate job, the last one that I did.

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On the interview, I said, like, guys, are you competitive or are you collaborative?

Speaker: 00:40:56

Because I need to know because otherwise, you know, we're gonna we're gonna have a friction from day one.

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I don't thrive in

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that, you know, competitive, typical, like, you know, I need to, you know, have a better target than you and whatever, you know, the KPIs and

Speaker: 00:41:09

stuff like that.

Speaker: 00:41:10

And they did say that there is a really actually a healthy balance, and that was the only reason why I joined, right?

Speaker: 00:41:16

And it was actually

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a breath of fresh air because the culture was decent, you know, not ideal, but you know, really, you know.

Speaker: 00:41:22

acceptable, etc.

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So no politics.

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I was yeah.

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Yeah.

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I'm not gonna say too much on that front, but you know how it is.

Speaker: 00:41:32

but yeah it was

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actually within the the acceptable sort of you know levels.

Speaker: 00:41:36

So I I was actually able

Speaker: 00:41:37

to to you know cope well with with all this.

Speaker: 00:41:40

But

Speaker: 00:41:40

on the collaboration element, you've you've said something really powerful.

Speaker: 00:41:43

It shows you a different mindset people who are trying to build their own thing have.

Speaker: 00:41:47

And I so

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much love it.

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Like, you know, I I cannot even stress this enough.

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And that's something it feels to me like I've gone through the traditional schooling system, right?

Speaker: 00:41:55

And it kind of kills that element in you a little bit because you're told like you have to perform on your own.

Speaker: 00:42:01

You cannot brainstorm

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with others.

Speaker: 00:42:02

You cannot have those like results with other people and work together on it.

Speaker: 00:42:06

Like, you know, what what's what's your

Speaker: 00:42:07

stance on it?

Speaker: 00:42:08

Can you can you share anything?

Speaker: 00:42:10

Yeah, it's it's interesting because of c I see in my kids as well that that that's useful.

Speaker: 00:42:15

As my my boys have two boys, they're they're they're twelve and ten.

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And their school has thankfully over the last couple of years instilled sort of a a project mindset in into the curriculum.

Speaker: 00:42:28

So so they they have three terms.

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It's a British curriculum, so they have three terms and their their second term, so the middle term, is project-based

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assessment.

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Right?

Speaker: 00:42:39

So they have the normal individual assessments for term one and term three, but the middle term is project-based assessments, which means that they they have to work on a

Speaker: 00:42:50

project, they have to deliver a project at the end, and particularly when you get to secondary school, so the young ones in primary, the projects are individual.

Speaker: 00:42:58

But when they get to secondary school, which is where my older one is, there it's a group project.

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So he at in year seven, he's already learning how to work within

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a group.

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to assign your you know different roles for the group, how to present as a group, and that your grade is dependent on the group, right?

Speaker: 00:43:18

So I see at least this is one example of one school that has understood that when you go to, like you said, when you go to the the real world so to say,

Speaker: 00:43:30

you are working with other people.

Speaker: 00:43:32

It's not anymore about, I need to get a better grade than you or I need to get a better KPI

Speaker: 00:43:39

than you.

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It's we need to collaborate to deliver this for the for the company.

Speaker: 00:43:43

Mm.

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And I also noticed something, and that was specifically in the corporate.

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many people don't

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simply have that sort of entrepreneurial spark in them, which is fine.

Speaker: 00:43:52

Everybody's, you know, we can thrive in in different environments, right?

Speaker: 00:43:55

So there's nothing wrong about

Speaker: 00:43:56

that.

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But I what I noticed is as well, people often f fall into a trap.

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So if you are,

Speaker: 00:44:02

let's say in the consulting space, this is like very prominent and and I'm sure you've seen it as well.

Speaker: 00:44:09

If you are a really good consultant within a corporate space, it doesn't give any incentive to the business, to your managers, you know, directors, etc., to promote you and

Speaker: 00:44:22

move you up because you're too valuable where you are, right?

Speaker: 00:44:25

Have you seen it?

Speaker: 00:44:25

Please tell me something.

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You know,

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one of the best tips

Speaker: 00:44:27

a senior manager gave me when I started my career is no one is irreplaceable.

Speaker: 00:44:33

Of course.

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And it's something that I carry to with me to this day and even remember exactly the person who who told it to me.

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But you're right that when you because we we tend to think as humans, let let me make myself irreplaceable.

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Let me try to make myself irreplaceable because then you know I won't get cut.

Speaker: 00:44:52

I won't, you know, this, that nothing bad will happen to me.

Speaker: 00:44:56

but what we forget is that

Speaker: 00:44:58

if we want to move up or move

Speaker: 00:45:01

across or move away from this role that the worst thing to do is to make your ir yourself irreplaceable because nobody your manager won't want to let you go and they'll fight tooth

Speaker: 00:45:12

and nail not to let you go.

Speaker: 00:45:14

The best thing to do, particularly as you move up and and become a leader and have your own team,

Speaker: 00:45:20

is to find someone who will replace you as soon as possible.

Speaker: 00:45:24

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 00:45:25

As and a and you're upskilling and training them with that end in mind so that you can move to your next spot.

Speaker: 00:45:32

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:45:33

So make yourself redundant as soon as possible, right?

Speaker: 00:45:36

Make yourself redundant as soon as possible.

Speaker: 00:45:38

Yeah.

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Got

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it.

Speaker: 00:45:39

Got it.

Speaker: 00:45:40

No, it's it's interesting to hear because

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you know, obviously we have different backgrounds, we have, you know, different sort of, you know, career paths in terms of like, you know, areas where we, you know, joined that

Speaker: 00:45:50

corporate.

Speaker: 00:45:50

But it just shows that those rules apply everywhere.

Speaker: 00:45:53

Right?

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That's that's the beauty of it, isn't

Speaker: 00:45:55

it?

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That that that's what I love.

Speaker: 00:45:57

And that's the benefit you get when you lived in different cultures because you realize that actually we're all sort of the same.

Speaker: 00:46:04

Social media helps, you know, with all the rap rap that social media gets, I think social media helps that.

Speaker: 00:46:10

lot, at least for me.

Speaker: 00:46:11

Because there's there's there's so many times that I've watched a video and I've thought, so I'm not the only one who thinks like that or feels this way.

Speaker: 00:46:19

Especially when you read the comments.

Speaker: 00:46:21

I love reading the comments on Instagram because then you realize

Speaker: 00:46:25

realize that there's so many people.

Speaker: 00:46:27

if I give you one example I I know I grew up in an immigrant family in in the US.

Speaker: 00:46:33

and we we didn't we don't wear our our shoes in in the house.

Speaker: 00:46:37

And of course in your household you think, that's that's a that's a Nigerian thing or that's an African thing.

Speaker: 00:46:43

Until you see a video in Instagram and then you start reading all the comments and and and you he and you learn very quickly that there's so many people because there'll be one

Speaker: 00:46:54

person saying, that's so Caribbean.

Speaker: 00:46:56

There'll be another person saying, that's so Indian.

Speaker: 00:46:59

Or person will be saying, that's so Filipino.

Speaker: 00:47:02

Like, we're all the same.

Speaker: 00:47:04

We're all the same.

Speaker: 00:47:05

I'm gonna tell you something right now.

Speaker: 00:47:07

I'm barefoot right now.

Speaker: 00:47:08

So

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it yeah, we're all the same.

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Like, you know, you can see these patterns.

Speaker: 00:47:16

Like, you know, I I had this breakthrough, like I've seen a video of a Mexican doing something around the house and then cooking it and whatever.

Speaker: 00:47:23

And I'm like, it's like a copy of my mum.

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Like, you know, that's like a hundred percent.

Speaker: 00:47:27

This is what happens.

Speaker: 00:47:28

Like, come on.

Speaker: 00:47:29

Exactly, exactly.

Speaker: 00:47:30

But yet yet yet we we're we're trying to al always other

Speaker: 00:47:33

people.

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That and that's what I find so so sad that on the one

Speaker: 00:47:37

hand I'm so happy that we have social media that we can see actually we're we're

Speaker: 00:47:41

we're no different from each other, even though you look very different, I look very different, you had a different background.

Speaker: 00:47:47

But I'm sure that if we sat down enough, we'd see so many similarities in how we were brought up.

Speaker: 00:47:53

up.

Speaker: 00:47:53

All you gotta do is just be willing to to to look at it for it.

Speaker: 00:47:57

Right because you you have to spend a little bit

Speaker: 00:47:59

of effort, like you know, just digging into that personality, like who's in front of

Speaker: 00:48:03

you.

Speaker: 00:48:03

And as soon as you do that, you know, that's like a magic mirror that's just, you know, shattering and you you see the reality, like we're all the same.

Speaker: 00:48:11

Yeah, yeah,

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yeah.

Speaker: 00:48:13

wow.

Speaker: 00:48:13

Wow.

Speaker: 00:48:13

Okay.

Speaker: 00:48:14

Now the exciting part, which is gonna be very

Speaker: 00:48:16

useful for my audience.

Speaker: 00:48:18

What's useful for you in in your niche, you know, in the consulting space, you know, what's the the tools?

Speaker: 00:48:23

What are the tools that are helping you deliver your services?

Speaker: 00:48:26

Is there anything that's specifically useful for you?

Speaker: 00:48:28

It could be anything as simple as appointment setting, all the way to a CRM maybe.

Speaker: 00:48:33

You know, if you could take us through through that sort of structure, how you've, you know, leveraged these certain things, you know, for yourself.

Speaker: 00:48:40

Yeah, you know, I like to say that I started my business at the perfect time and I don't know how people five years ago started, you know, ran their businesses and started a

Speaker: 00:48:51

business

Speaker: 00:48:52

generative AI you know became mainstream with Chat GPT at the end of twenty two, as you know.

Speaker: 00:48:58

when I left corporate.

Speaker: 00:48:59

So d during that time, that that transition, twelve months, where I was busy meeting people and, you know, delivering pro bono services, I was also doing a lot of training.

Speaker: 00:49:09

And so the training I was doing was around AI and

Speaker: 00:49:13

large language models and you know all the all these things and I was playing around with these tools that on the corporate side you don't have access to right because the IT

Speaker: 00:49:23

blocks everything for security reasons for very

Speaker: 00:49:25

good reasons but they block everything security but not all good governance so you know simple things like Calendly

Speaker: 00:49:34

I'd heard of Calendly from, you know, random people, but I had never looked into it because I had an assistant and any would have would have been blocked at Allianz.

Speaker: 00:49:44

So, you know, what was the point?

Speaker: 00:49:47

It was one of the first if tools that I got on, and it had was such a game changer because

Speaker: 00:49:53

all those back and forth of do you have time on Tuesday at two o'clock?

Speaker: 00:49:58

yeah.

Speaker: 00:49:58

But do you have time Wednesday?

Speaker: 00:50:00

Yes.

Speaker: 00:50:01

Got rid of all that because I didn't have an assistant anymore.

Speaker: 00:50:05

I was by myself.

Speaker: 00:50:06

So yeah, having that, you know, calendar making,

Speaker: 00:50:10

it even just having a I tool to pick your favorite tool that could that could draft emails for you, that could draft proposals for you, that could that could draft

Speaker: 00:50:21

for me, draft draft different memos it it it made being a solopreneur so much more efficient than if I had had had to do this all really from scratch by myself.

Speaker: 00:50:35

So I was sort of able to

Speaker: 00:50:37

Mimic

Speaker: 00:50:37

the team that I left, the support team I had left with the use of some AI tools.

Speaker: 00:50:43

Now of course I'm very thankful that I actually have a real team with actual people on it now.

Speaker: 00:50:49

And so we're we we just crossed double digits.

Speaker: 00:50:52

We we just reached 10 people in three different countries.

Speaker: 00:50:56

And so the to answer the second part of your question.

Speaker: 00:50:59

Hiring people who are better than you in their area of expertise would be the the second bit.

Speaker: 00:51:04

So the the tools are all nice, particularly the AI driven ones, but still at the end of the day, I know that people are talking about having billion dollar companies who are run

Speaker: 00:51:14

by one person plus their AI agents, fine.

Speaker: 00:51:16

But

Speaker: 00:51:17

But I I still think that we we live in a world where people want to talk to people.

Speaker: 00:51:22

Of course.

Speaker: 00:51:22

Particularly if you're in a competitive space.

Speaker: 00:51:25

Yes, yes.

Speaker: 00:51:25

I I did notice that, you know, I've learned that the hard way, right?

Speaker: 00:51:29

People buy from you as a person, not from you as a business.

Speaker: 00:51:32

Because, you know, the way

Speaker: 00:51:33

you show yourself, you know, you they it could be very like openly, like, you know, let's say advertised that you are just a representative of a business.

Speaker: 00:51:40

You you're not even the founder, right?

Speaker: 00:51:42

At that point, for example.

Speaker: 00:51:44

Mm-hmm.

Speaker: 00:51:44

somebody else's business.

Speaker: 00:51:45

They are still buying into your personality, right?

Speaker: 00:51:48

The business, yes,

Speaker: 00:51:48

that's a good sort of background.

Speaker: 00:51:50

It gives them the reassurance that okay, these guys are solid because they have the, let's say, the history of delivering good results.

Speaker: 00:51:56

But you as a person are still that deciding factor whether they like you or not.

Speaker: 00:52:01

It could be the the make or break of that relationship, right?

Speaker: 00:52:04

Right, right.

Speaker: 00:52:05

I mean you you have, for example, very large banks in in in our country here where because I want to stay with my relationship manager and my relationship manager moves from

Speaker: 00:52:17

bank A to bank B, I will actually move my account from bank A to bank B.

Speaker: 00:52:23

Got it.

Speaker: 00:52:24

That happens all the time, not just in banking.

Speaker: 00:52:26

I'm just using that as an example, but that happens all the time.

Speaker: 00:52:29

So then you see that

Speaker: 00:52:30

i th it wasn't the brand that brought me to that bank.

Speaker: 00:52:32

Yeah, of course I wanted the solid brand.

Speaker: 00:52:34

I wanted to know that it wasn't some fly by night company, but really it was the person who kept me there.

Speaker: 00:52:39

there.

Speaker: 00:52:39

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:52:40

So the trust that they built with you, that relationship, is what takes you through that stage.

Speaker: 00:52:44

Because it it is a bit of a

Speaker: 00:52:46

Pain, right?

Speaker: 00:52:46

You know, we don't like change by nature, right?

Speaker: 00:52:49

We like to stay, you

Speaker: 00:52:50

know, as we are for as long as possible until the pain of change, you know, is l smaller than the pain of staying where we are, right?

Speaker: 00:52:57

So, you know, for

Speaker: 00:52:59

you to actually transition your, let's say, you know, accounts and all that, you know, because that person is changing roles and moving to a different business, you know, that

Speaker: 00:53:07

that's that's a powerful message.

Speaker: 00:53:08

So, you know, thank you for sharing that.

Speaker: 00:53:10

That's a great example.

Speaker: 00:53:11

you know, me being customer facing for a while in the corporate, you know, under under customer success.

Speaker: 00:53:16

We we've seen it every day.

Speaker: 00:53:18

Like, you know, sometimes

Speaker: 00:53:19

people can forgive you some, you know, F ups, you know, in terms of the technical side of the business.

Speaker: 00:53:24

Just because

Speaker: 00:53:25

you treat them well, you know, you show them that you're listening to them and and actively trying to help.

Speaker: 00:53:30

I I agree and this is something that I I tell my team every day.

Speaker: 00:53:34

and I'm sure sometimes they roll their eyes at me because you know why am I stressing them?

Speaker: 00:53:40

But it's it's so important how we make our customers and our clients feel, right?

Speaker: 00:53:45

Like because like you said, the people will forgive a lot as long as they feel heard and they feel taken care of and and they feel like they can trust you.

Speaker: 00:53:55

When you lose that trust, then the

Speaker: 00:53:57

ability to accept things that gets gets lower and lower, right?

Speaker: 00:54:02

so I you know and it's in the little things, right?

Speaker: 00:54:06

So it's in responding when people email you.

Speaker: 00:54:09

And and and this is a pet peeve of mine because I understand that first of all people are busy, but everybody's busy.

Speaker: 00:54:17

And then and then secondly typically what happens is that

Speaker: 00:54:21

that

Speaker: 00:54:21

People are working.

Speaker: 00:54:22

So they've seen the email, you have a request or demand or whatever, and I'm working like to fill that demand and do it.

Speaker: 00:54:30

But because I haven't told you, Daniel, that I'm working and that I've seen your email and acknowledged you, you get more and more frustrated.

Speaker: 00:54:37

So that by the time I actually deliver, or even before I've delivered, you you know, you send a nasty email to me or you call my boss or whatever, and then I'm feeling like, but I

Speaker: 00:54:49

was working the whole time I'm trying to explain.

Speaker: 00:54:51

explain myself to my boss and th th the simple thing was break down the communication.

Speaker: 00:54:56

Yes.

Speaker: 00:54:56

Tell Daniel that you're working on it.

Speaker: 00:54:58

Did you see his email?

Speaker: 00:55:00

Did you make him feel acknowledged?

Speaker: 00:55:02

yeah.

Speaker: 00:55:02

So that he can trust that you're going to deliver what he asked for you.

Speaker: 00:55:06

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:55:07

It's in those little things.

Speaker: 00:55:08

Communication 101 That's really what it is, right?

Speaker: 00:55:11

Tell them because how else would they

Speaker: 00:55:15

know?

Speaker: 00:55:16

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:55:16

It's just a do they they don't know that it just

Speaker: 00:55:19

a black box and you just never saw it.

Speaker: 00:55:21

That that's the worst thing is for people to feel like you didn't hear them.

Speaker: 00:55:25

them.

Speaker: 00:55:25

Hmm.

Speaker: 00:55:26

It's sometimes worse than just hearing a no, right?

Speaker: 00:55:28

It's like, you know, for

Speaker: 00:55:29

anybody who ever applied for a job.

Speaker: 00:55:32

This is a great example, right?

Speaker: 00:55:34

You know, what does it like what

Speaker: 00:55:36

do you feel when you just don't hear anything?

Speaker: 00:55:39

A simple no would

Speaker: 00:55:40

be easier to to handle.

Speaker: 00:55:42

And so this is why I I do

Speaker: 00:55:44

my best, you know, people have wondered how I do it, but I do try the my best to respond to like my emails, the LinkedIn messages, WhatsApp etcetera, even when most of the time

Speaker: 00:55:56

it is a no, right?

Speaker: 00:55:58

I'm not interested, particularly the LinkedIn messages, right?

Speaker: 00:56:00

so but I I and and I've had so many people thank me for responding and responding so quickly.

Speaker: 00:56:06

Got it.

Speaker: 00:56:07

Got it.

Speaker: 00:56:08

That's very powerful.

Speaker: 00:56:09

And

Speaker: 00:56:09

Now a big question in terms of like how you operate, right?

Speaker: 00:56:13

And you

Speaker: 00:56:14

know, w I'm I'm sure you would agree it's very important to know when to say no, right?

Speaker: 00:56:19

We we literally just just mentioned that.

Speaker: 00:56:21

So

Speaker: 00:56:22

has it become like part of your systems and actual like, you know, approach in business to just find as many things as you possibly can to say no to?

Speaker: 00:56:32

Was that part of your thinking intentionally, or did it just happen like organically for you?

Speaker: 00:56:37

Both.

Speaker: 00:56:38

Yeah, maybe.

Speaker: 00:56:39

I mean definitely there's an intentional part, but I I can't argue that none of it didn't just happen because you know, sometimes you just don't have time, so you're just

Speaker: 00:56:49

going to say no.

Speaker: 00:56:50

no.

Speaker: 00:56:50

Sure.

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But no, particularly as I get older, I've understood and I tell others and I mentor others to say that no is a complete sentence and you don't owe anyone, I don't owe any anyone an

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explanation.

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So my go-to answer is actually no.

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I I don't remember who it was who said that strategy is all about what you say no to.

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And and so if I if I consider myself a strategy expert, then I should be an expert in saying no.

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no and and makes sense.

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intentionally made myself.

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you know, typically I'm able to to manage it quite well and and yeah, people will be disappointed but you know, one or two occasions I've had particularly pushy people who

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really are trying to push back against and no and say, Hey, but why, but why?

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And I'm

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I I'll be forty nine next week and I just I I don't care.

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I don't care anymore.

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Yes.

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Next Thursday Thank you.

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Black don't crack, like they say.

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say Wow, you just dropped a bomb on me right now.

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Like wow.

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Wow.

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That that makes total sense.

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You know, and I'm learning it right now because it it's so easy to just like, you know, there's that email.

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There's always gonna be an email, right?

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That needs responding.

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You know, it's

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it's tempting to say yes to it because there's an opportunity there.

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But is it big enough or is it, you know, aligned with what I'm trying to do?

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Right.

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So there's like

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so many criteria that we need to go through, you know, in our heads as well.

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Is there anything that you could advise on, you know, how you would approach to systemizing it just to make it like like a let's say an automated part of our lives that

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you know certain things just simply don't get to you and your y your head becomes, you know, less cluttered?

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Yeah, there's there's two things, two areas I can touch on.

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So for example, the the person who's asking to

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sort of

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pick your brain, get I get a lot of those requests on on LinkedIn, different wording, but that's basically what they're all boiling down to quick fifteen minute meeting, I

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have this business, I have this idea, da da da da.

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And

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And

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and and this is one way I use AI because maybe I'm not as diplomatic as I could be.

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AI is much more diplomatic.

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Okay.

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But I have we we have an assessment tool based on our SCALE framework.

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a a a scale f scale your business scorecard we call

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it.

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And so I will find a way to phrase it, to send it to them and say, Hey, you know, just to make sure that our discussion is is focused

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we advise that everybody fill out this the scorecard and so then and then within those that scorecard we have two questions that point to whether they fit our ideal client

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profile.

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Cinderella questions we call them.

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so does the glass shoe fit?

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And so based on that, I

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then know how to respond to to them af you know as as a follow-up.

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So that's one area.

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area which someone just asked me about this this morning was speaking engagements.

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Okay.

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So of course in the first part, for a long time you're very eager to take on speaking engagements around because it's your vis you're around your your personal brand, your

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personal brand, your visibility, etc.

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I think though, and I think maybe Daniel, you're also there.

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you get to a point in your career where you say that sorry, visibility doesn't pay the bills.

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And I I I I I don't need that anymore.

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Like I I feel like my net my network knows me, people know me.

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I I th th that's not a selling point for me anymore.

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So

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d

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This year, my team, specifically my chief of staff have been very intentional that I will only take paid engagements, right?

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Paid speaking engagements.

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for w you know there are ex exceptions to that.

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So now she acts as the gatekeeper.

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Okay.

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Because I and this is a tip that I picked up recently.

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It's easier for someone else to act as the bad guy for another person.

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Yes.

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Than for you to act as a bad guy for yourself.

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Yes.

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If that makes sense.

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a hundred percent.

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It's

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it's amazing because

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let's or let's say if you are representing a company, you're acting on

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behalf of the company.

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So it's so easy to say certain things because you're you've got that logo behind you, you know, I'm representing

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X, Y, and Z, you know, you feel a bit more confident, right?

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Because it

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doesn't have to come from inside of you, right?

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And as soon as I started selling my own services.

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I was like, this is so vulnerable.

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I completely agree.

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And you know, and a place where another place you see it is negotiations, right?

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particularly they thought they they see we see it in women, and I can speak as that as as a woman's, right?

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So that women are actually very good at negotiating.

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Top negotiators when they're negotiating for someone else.

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yes.

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Negotiating for their family

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Or for the business and a woman would be, you know, vicious.

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But when it comes to negotiating for myself, then all of a sudden I become like, I don't know.

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I don't know if I should say this Because a bit harder.

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go through to help yourself with that?

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I would be really interested to hear that.

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Practice or that it's always easy.

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I'm not saying that, but but I think it comes with age.

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Okay.

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And I think particularly over forty.

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You you start I le you know, I think for many women, not just for me, from from what

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I've seen, it's many women.

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and forty is not a magic age.

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It's not like day you know, thirty nine, I'm like this, and then forty I'm like this.

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But yeah, yeah, I'm I'm strong now.

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But I you know, I I I I think it's just around that age and and I hear that fifty is even better and sixty is another level of its own.

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But you sort of get to that point where you're like, take me as I am.

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I am.

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You I I'm comfortable with myself.

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like myself, and if if you don't then move on.

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I'm okay with that.

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Whereas before that, you're you're sort of trying to be please everyone and be liked and not and not and not burn any bridges and not hurt any feelings, etcetera.

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Got it.

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Got it.

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Okay, that makes sense.

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it's also you know, is speaking of of you know how how I can see the differences between how we would operate as men and and you know you would as as women.

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I can also see a bit less belief in yourself, whether it comes from like that it like internal like confidence in your own skills that etcetera.

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When you apply for jobs, for example, there's been

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like crazy statistics around, you know, a man

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You know, the like a a man would apply to a job when there is like one line of alignment, right?

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But you

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know, for for yourselves, it's usually apparently, you know, statistically.

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Everything has to be checked Exactly, you know, and more.

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And if not, you you're

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like, maybe you know.

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So it's a really interesting mindset, you know, to consider as well, because when you're working with like, you know, you know, teams who are like really mixed, like, you know, if

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it's like ten men in the room, if there is a tension, you know, they will just say a few harsh words and you know

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Hopefully the the situation dissipates, right?

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You know, it

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it works very differently in those mixed environments, right?

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You know, what

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is there anything that you would advise now now that you're building your own team, you know, any tips or tricks on on that front?

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You know, how you can sort of help the team to work better together on on that element?

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Well, it it has to come from the top.

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so I so I I think that I and and I am but also other leaders have to be very intentional in in in bringing in the the the the different elements of the team.

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And it's not just always a gender thing.

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It can be an age thing, it can be a race thing, it can be s you know, many different things.

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But y just being very there there will always be someone people who are more vocal than others and there'll be others who tend to be more silent.

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And so I think it's it's

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your responsibility as a leader to make sure you're getting input and you're encouraging input and creating a safe space where people understand that they can speak their mind.

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And they they can say say something that's challenging as well.

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Because it it shouldn't everything be kumbaya and you know, let's just all get along.

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That's not the point.

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No, we we have to challenge that.

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No, in in some environments, in some cultures, you're not allowed to challenge,

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right?

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Or you don't feel safe to challenge.

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particularly the leader.

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And so so it it has to be the leader who makes sure that people understand that it's safe to challenge.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That's that's so powerful.

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Thank you.

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Thank you for saying that.

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I I've seen it in the corporate, but now that I'm, you know, thinking of implementing my own team, that that's one of the things that that was on my radar like, how do I even make

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it a safe space, right?

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I've seen a couple of examples when I was an employee, which worked really well.

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I'm not sure whether you've

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You know, you've we've mentioned one of the books.

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wasn't there another one in the making by any chance?

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Yes.

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So this one just came out this year.

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Okay.

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a a consortium a collaboration.

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So I only have one of the chapters.

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Okay.

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and it it's so this one's on leadership.

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Whereas the the the this one is is more a a more general business book.

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Uhhuh.

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Sort of winds my story through and using my s story as lessons for for for for the business world and and and the the frameworks that we we put in place.

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Africa focused, but I think that this is like like you mentioned

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the skills and and and the requirements don't necessarily

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differ from from sector to sector, from country to country, from region to region.

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So Afro Optimism Unleashed and then Unshakable Leadership where we focus on leadership from different people's perspectives.

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I'm I'm I'm one of 20 or so authors I think if I look at the long list of of names.

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then have a a third chapter coming out

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soon around governance.

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So one was more general business, this one was leadership and now corporate governance, which I'm co-writing with of co-written actually with one of my team members.

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So yeah, yeah.

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Thank you.

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anything like you know closing thoughts, any like, you know, bigger tips for anybody building their own thing out there

Speaker: 01:06:45

Obviously, you know, we will share the links to how they can find you and your channel so they can learn from you from materials that you've already released out there.

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But is there anything

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specific that you maybe wanted to close the conversation with on our talk?

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I would.

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I I and I and this is based on some recent feedback I I received to my I'm very active on LinkedIn, I I write quite a bit and and publish something almost daily.

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And recently I've been talking about my journey coming out of corporate and that is my journey.

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And so, you know, one of the things that I I want to emphasize is wherever you are in your own career jour journey, whether you're in corporate, whether you're thinking about

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leaving corporate, whether

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you've shifted into entrepreneurship or whether you've never been in corporate, you've all always been an entrepreneur.

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no journey is is better than the other.

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And I like to say choose your hard.

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No, no, no, no path is easier.

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So the fact that I went to corporate for two decades and then decided to transition to entrepreneurship doesn't mean that you should as well.

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and if you decide to stay in corporate,

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that's not failure.

Speaker: 01:07:57

That's a decision you've made and there are pros and cons to the decision and you know best what is best for for you at this point in time.

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If you've decided to shift

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It's not going to be easier.

Speaker: 01:08:10

So all the things that you hated about corporate, don't think that now you're an entrepreneur.

Speaker: 01:08:15

this is the easy life.

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Everything is is just going to be a dream.

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No.

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As you know, Daniel, building a business is also tough.

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So being a corporate has its tough sides.

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Building a business is also tough.

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Choose your hard.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I could not agree more.

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This is so powerful.

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Beautiful,

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beautiful.

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Thank you so much.

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It was a great conversation.

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I really appreciate it.

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Yeah, I had fun.

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I had